Curse

Tyla · Sep 24, 2008, 10:40 PM // 22:40

In AB I primarily run the following on my 'Sin:

[golden phoenix strike][twisting fangs][black spider strike][blades of steel][lightning reflexes][distracting shot][hidden caltrops][way of the lotus]

Another one I use replaces Lightning Reflexes and Distracting Shot with Tiger Stance / Flurry and Bull's Strike. I generally prefer the Lightning Reflexes one though, primarily because it covers me from D-Shots with a high success rate.

Just thought I'd like to share what I use and discuss it a little.

Luminarus · Sep 25, 2008, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Looks interesting... dunno if d-shot would be that good really, have to try it to find out. Ill give it a shot later.

majikmajikmajik · Sep 25, 2008, 12:45 AM // 00:45

id drop all the ranger skills for warrior ias and dash. the ranger skills just look pointless without being able to put points into expertise.

boogerboy72 · Sep 25, 2008, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by majikmajikmajik

id drop all the ranger skills for warrior ias and dash. the ranger skills just look pointless without being able to put points into expertise.

dshot is NEVER pointless.

lrn2zb/dshot monk ra.

Bobby2 · Sep 25, 2008, 01:01 AM // 01:01

I like it. No idea what your atts are (ie how many Dagger u sacrificed for Shadow) but it's refreshing to see an old school TF/BoS instagib chain again, even though it's awfully predictable without Shadowstep antics...

...how'd you ever pull it off without blocks

Chain has no disruption. Weapon swap mid combo for DShot is too unwieldy for me (rather have DStab at the ready).

It's AB so I'd suggest running Dash over something... and megotznorum4aBow. But I know how much you love it so gg

fear the ear · Sep 25, 2008, 01:03 AM // 01:03

possibly the most godly sin build ever
imo needs moar hammer bash

majikmajikmajik · Sep 25, 2008, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by boogerboy72

dshot is NEVER pointless.

lrn2zb/dshot monk ra.

[QUOTE=Bobby2;4269984]
Chain has no disruption. Weapon swap mid combo for DShot is too unwieldy for me (rather have DStab at the ready).QUOTE]

is what i had in mind

fireflyry · Sep 25, 2008, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Nice idea.

No movement buff rules it out for me.

GourangaPizza · Sep 25, 2008, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Why [Distracting Shot]? Why not drop [Blades of Steel] and [Golden Phoenix Strike] and opt for [Disrupting Stab] and [Exhausting Assault]? Since distracting shot requires you to get intimate with your target to reliably interrupt 1s spells you might as well go for dagger disrupt skills. Also with the loss of GPS, there is no need for [Way of the Lotus], so you switch it out for [Dash].

Tyla · Sep 25, 2008, 01:21 PM // 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by GourangaPizza

Why [Distracting Shot]?

Iunno. I had free space considering it's AB and I like D-Shot and Bull's Strike on any class.

Quote:

Why not drop [Blades of Steel] and [Golden Phoenix Strike] and opt for [Disrupting Stab] and [Exhausting Assault]?

Yes, and sacrifice roughly 160 damage? If I swap them round, I probably wouldn't even kill an idiot.

Quote:

Since distracting shot requires you to get intimate with your target to reliably interrupt 1s spells you might as well go for dagger disrupt skills. Also with the loss of GPS, there is no need for [Way of the Lotus], so you switch it out for [Dash].

Way of the Lotus is also my energy management.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby

I like it. No idea what your atts are (ie how many Dagger u sacrificed for Shadow) but it's refreshing to see an old school TF/BoS instagib chain again, even though it's awfully predictable without Shadowstep antics...

12+1+1 Dagger Mastery, 10 Shadow Arts, 8 Critical Strikes.

WotL is a pretty amazing skill when it comes to GPS, and considering the fact I usually manage to spare alot of attributes...

Also, WotL is needed for the energy management anyway. Moreso on the Warrior version of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by majikmajikmajik

id drop all the ranger skills for warrior ias and dash. the ranger skills just look pointless without being able to put points into expertise.

What?

Lightning Reflexes only needs 5 seconds. My instigib either goes through or it doesn't, and Lightning Reflexes covers the chain from interruption through martial attacks (Which I stated in the OP...). D-Shot also requires no attribution for it's priority use.

Oh, and just throwing this out here: D-Shot and Bull's are what I just like to use when I have the open skill slot. They aren't priority skills for the build itself.

Bobby2 · Sep 25, 2008, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by fireflyry

Nice idea.

No movement buff rules it out for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Oh, and just throwing this out here: D-Shot and Bull's are what I just like to use when I have the open skill slot. They aren't priority skills for the build itself.

Again, Dash for normal people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Also, WotL is needed for the energy management anyway. Moreso on the Warrior version of it.

wut?

Tyla · Sep 25, 2008, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Oh, I ment the Ranger version. An extra 5 energy is alot when it comes to instigibs.

Taisayacho · Sep 25, 2008, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Ok, works, apart from the lack of IMS (which is very useful in AB). I suppose it's a good concept.

And of course Tyla's mandatory d-shot. I guess it fits in there...

Tyla · Sep 25, 2008, 09:47 PM // 21:47

I just use something other than IMS skills in AB. I don't play for the "CAPCAPCAPCAP" part of it nearly as much as others do, I just play it to fool around. (Except for when I use Bull's Strike on a Cripshot! Although I'll be running that on my Ranger when IA gets nerfed, or I decide to stop using Melandru's Shot instead of Cripshot)

If I was using a build for an entire party, however, I'd probably be running "Fall Back!". Partywide IMS that affects everyone, aids kiting and heals at the same time. It's usually put on a support based character with free attributes, though.

I would also like to point out that there is a huge weakness in this build. The dependancy on both a hex and an enchantment could lead to a vast disadvantage under certain game types. The same can be said for not taking advantage of Shadowstepping. Shadow Prison has a bigger recharge and cost, but shadowsteps. Caltrops is a more versatile snare that only costs 5 energy and has half the recharge. It's also incredibly powerful in the first place with it having a 10 second snare with an extra ~11 seconds including the condition part of it.

mrmango · Sep 25, 2008, 09:51 PM // 21:51

/tyla fanboy/d-shot fanboy

Bobby2 · Sep 25, 2008, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

I just use something other than IMS skills in AB. I don't play for the "CAPCAPCAPCAP" part of it nearly as much as others do

It helps with being at the right place at the right time tho ^^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

If I was using a build for an entire party, however, I'd probably be running "Fall Back!". Partywide IMS that affects everyone, aids kiting and heals at the same time. It's usually put on a support based character with free attributes, though.

yikes at Command investment... though I must admit I've had my share of fun with Charge Sins

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

I would also like to point out that there is a huge weakness in this build. The dependancy on both a hex and an enchantment could lead to a vast disadvantage under certain game types. The same can be said for not taking advantage of Shadowstepping. Shadow Prison has a bigger recharge and cost, but shadowsteps. Caltrops is a more versatile snare that only costs 5 energy and has half the recharge. It's also incredibly powerful in the first place with it having a 10 second snare with an extra ~11 seconds including the condition part of it.

Lots of skill interaction = strength, lots of skill interdependence = weakness. For an instagib Sin such as this, partial shutdown might as well be complete shutdown imho. Not that I run Hex/Ench removal, don't get me wrong... it's AB amirite?

Tyla · Sep 25, 2008, 11:44 PM // 23:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

It helps with being at the right place at the right time tho ^^

Well I cap when I can. Although when it comes to a fight I can't resist but go for them and take the piss.

Quote:

yikes at Command investment... though I must admit I've had my share of fun with Charge Sins

Part of this is also used on bars which have free attributes, so yeah...

Quote:

Lots of skill interaction = strength, lots of skill interdependence = weakness. For an instagib Sin such as this, partial shutdown might as well be complete shutdown imho. Not that I run Hex/Ench removal, don't get me wrong... it's AB amirite?

This is the same problem that was with the Way of the Empty Palm build I played. Either the hex gets removed and I'm screwed over, or the enchant gets removed and I'm screwed over. The same can be said for the majority of melee based builds too, but this is more than just one, but three problems.

Might aswell show what I used to use on Way of the Empty Palm though:

[way of the empty palm][dark prison][lightning reflexes][black spider strike][twisting fangs][golden phoenix strike][blades of steel][no skill]

This could be in the same case as this bar. What I used to use was one of the damage if conditioned skills, Signet of Toxic Shock or Deadly Corruption. I used this in my HB days, which was before DC existed anyway though.

Oh, and if you want mid-chain disruption use Mark of Instability!

Just to say though, this is the problem with many 'Sin builds. Most of them require at least 7 skill slots (IAS, 4 attack combo, extra attack / extra fuel skill, main fuel skill) when it comes to instibigging.

That is unless someone has an Instagib that kills fairly efficiently which doesn't take alot of skill slots.

Luminarus · Sep 26, 2008, 01:25 AM // 01:25

sins dont really have a use other then instagibbing.. its like saying does anyone have a good monk build that uses less then 5 or 6 skills?

Tyla · Sep 26, 2008, 02:47 PM // 14:47

My point is that you're required to use up that many slots and it doesn't leave room for variation.

GourangaPizza · Sep 27, 2008, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Eh... the way I see Hidden Caltrops sin is more like a utility role than a offensive, since people run either from heavy pressure or dying. So I'd rather much run Disrupting Stab and Exhausting Assault over what you proposed. Besides, they can't even cast a single spell to counter the heavy degen from poison, bleeding and deep wound with you disrupting it. (unless you discounted the fact they are backed by a monk.) And even if they do have a monk, you cannot kill them with GPS and BoS since the monk will be able to catch the spike easily. And I also never liked to be too reliant on a single enchantment to pull off my chain given that you will never know if it will be removed. But if you really want some decent e-management, you might as well run A/D with Attacker's Insight, though you will have to adjust the execution of your chain a little.